Short podcast interview with Vincent Mourou, the co-founder of Marou Chocolate, on the origins of the company and how he thinks we might be entering a new era for chocolate (more sophistication in the techniques, appreciation). Some notes from the conversation are below; please note these are for personal reference only and any mistakes in the transcription are mine.
Origins of the company – he is one of the co-founders of Marou Chocolate, a bean to bar company based in Vietnam. They have been in business since 2011 making chocolate in-country from only Vietnamese-sourced cacao. He met his co-founder in Vietnam, they were both interested in doing something new in their lives. He was researching different ideas and one day was told there was cacao growing in Vietnam. That was a eureka moment for him. They wanted to do something with cacao because it was filled with only good things – working with a noble ingredient, in-country, doing something original (no one at the time was making chocolate with Vietnamese cacao, there were no known chocolate brands).
Developing relationships with the cacao farmers in Vietnam – the first time that they went out to the countryside, they used Google to find out where they could go for cacao. They knew there was cacao in Ben Tre, but they also wanted to explore new areas. They found there was some cacao growing in Ba Ria (~2 hours from Saigon), so they headed out on the motorbikes to explore the area. They started working with Ba Ria beans for about 2 months in his co-founder’s kitchen where they experimented with small batches of chocolate. At the same time, they had a Vietnamese friend who was living in the countryside outside Saigon. On the weekends, he would take his motorbike and visit provinces near where he lived and meet the cacao farmers, gather samples and send to them. They would try the beans and if they liked them, they would go and meet the farmer, that’s how the relationship started. After 6 months, they had farmers they liked in about 4-5 provinces, started working on the branding, packaging. Chocolate wasn’t quite there yet but it was getting there, had to decide what their first line of chocolate was going to be.
Learning about the terroir effect in chocolate – one of the most interesting things they learnt over time was how different terroir influences the taste. They were getting samples from different provinces which, although near each other geographically, had differences in soil type, topography etc. and therefore led to differences in taste. They realized that was very interesting and that was what they should put out to the world. In those days, they were the first to present a terroir chocolate for one country. They didn’t want the terroir concept to sound pretentious, it was just exciting that in such a small geographic area you could have such a wide range of flavors and characters in the chocolate. They have tried to approach chocolate making through the lens of the winemaking industry. Was the most immediate and accessible industry to draw from because they are both from wine-growing regions in France. Every area in France produces very different wines because the climates, soil types etc. are different. They started seeing similar things with what they were doing in chocolate.
Relationship with the farmers today – they are still working with every farmer they started out with except for one who was getting old and retired. Have helped them grow, get better. The idea is that they will buy everything from them but it is not always possible. Quality isn’t always there, for certain farmers it is 95%, others it might be 70%. Market price is very low so they have had to increase their prices to maintain the quality and the activity. In Vietnam, the farmers are educated and smart – they calculate margin and, if they are not making money from cacao, they will cut the trees and plant something else.
Learning about cacao – this mostly came from reading. They were lucky in the very beginning (first 3-4 months) that they were in contact with a German agronomist who was going around training cacao farmers. They would meet over a beer and he would give them a masterclass on cacao. Then they would go with him to the countryside where he worked with the farmers. In the beginning, they were working with only a few farmer-fermenters, today they are working with many more. This is great but also challenging because you have many more people you need to monitor, deal with their issues and so on. Their sourcing team today is 6 people. Their job is to go around to all 7 provinces; they are constantly on the road. They also have meetings where they bring all the pod farmers in so they can get a good idea of what is happening with them, make sure they get a good price etc.
When did they start noticing other people were looking to source cacao from Vietnam – they had started growing, had some early success, were buying more and more cacao. They were seeing they couldn’t buy all of it for their needs but they could buy for others, which would benefit the farmers and increase their revenue. That’s how they started selling some cacao, around 2012-2013 when they started shipping to the US.
Differentiation between cacao regions – each farmer had their product so they had created this kind of terroir identity with Vietnamese cacao. The farmers had this regional pride about what they do. Not their own brands, just their own character/identity. No official stamp. In wine, you have AOC – protects what is going on in that specific place, methods, varieties etc. Each wine maker in that area has to follow those guidelines. We are not there at all with cacao. No governing body, there need to be slight differences in how fermentation is done from place to place.
Changes in the industry – thinks we are coming out of the middle ages with chocolate and now in a whole new era. Chocolate is becoming more and more sophisticated in its techniques, appreciation – seeing that at the farmer level, with chocolate makers and the consumers. We are seeing new methods of planting, fermentation etc. Historically, agronomists had looked at a cacao tree as something that’s been grown the same way forever, now people are looking at it as a fruit tree, applying techniques that have been known to work with fruit trees to improve productivity, reduce stresses on the environment (e.g. use of water). Thinks cacao will become more like wine – the more sophisticated they get with their techniques, better able to control and create different tastes.